tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-691016683378293851.post8691224384412262256..comments2024-03-03T16:35:25.083-05:00Comments on Marian's Roots and Rambles: Are Bloggers Really the New Experts Part 2Marianhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04738104230962644360noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-691016683378293851.post-69222945189352000672011-12-22T10:14:59.649-05:002011-12-22T10:14:59.649-05:00An excellent article accompanied by thought provok...An excellent article accompanied by thought provoking comments. I also noticed I have been called out in one of those comments.<br /><br />To Martin - If it is a scholarly article it is cited. Not that I won't cite. Shades is my scholarly work. I write on fM for the sheer joy of it. <br /><br />You and I have been down this road before in more blog posts than I care to remember. I generally handle you with humor, however, I am short on it this year.<br /><br />Merry Christmas! The eponymous FootnoteMaven<br /><br />Sorry for the interruption Marian.footnoteMavenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16136826114954180827noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-691016683378293851.post-35806752921848601732011-12-21T11:35:23.321-05:002011-12-21T11:35:23.321-05:00Thank you, Michael, for clarifying that USGenWeb i...Thank you, Michael, for clarifying that USGenWeb is still active. I just wanted to add that the volunteers who maintain the USGenWeb sites are almost always looking for new material to include, and gladly welcome anything that is submitted by researchers. I volunteer to manage one of the county sites and I am in a constant state of searching for contributors. So please conduct a google search for the location in which your contributions would best apply and contact the coordinator for the relevant site. <br /><br />Once you do find the site, browse around, since most of them offer links to discussion forums and mailing lists in which genealogists can share information and ask questions.Lisa Frankhttp://www.1ancestry2littletime.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-691016683378293851.post-30088790412173531282011-12-21T10:24:52.469-05:002011-12-21T10:24:52.469-05:00To the anonymous poster who mentioned "GenWeb...To the anonymous poster who mentioned "GenWeb":<br /><br />The USGenWeb project is still active and still not commercial. It has never been "swallowed up" by Ancestry or any other corporation, though many of its sites are hosted at no cost by Rootsweb, which is owned by Ancestry. Many of its sites are not hosted by Rootsweb.<br /><br />Use of the USGenWeb sites remains 100% free for genealogists.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-691016683378293851.post-27546473958807815542011-12-21T08:10:22.184-05:002011-12-21T08:10:22.184-05:00Good post, Marian, and good food for thought! Also...Good post, Marian, and good food for thought! Also wanted to comment on Anonymous' post - good ideas, maybe it's too much to ask, but is it too much to do? Think about how you can work to make it happen...Dawnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11987424576985471215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-691016683378293851.post-31790981133302270562011-12-21T02:54:00.042-05:002011-12-21T02:54:00.042-05:00In the 1990s, when the internet was just becoming ...In the 1990s, when the internet was just becoming popular, genealogical societies did try to put information online. Many volunteer hours were put into making all kinds of indexes. I think the site was called GenWeb? One of its goals was to keep genealogy free for the community. Then that site was swallowed up by RootsWeb/Ancestry. A lot of the information is still there somewhere and scattered, but many were discouraged by the changes and stopped contributing or moved their information elsewhere.<br /><br />We need another GenWeb type of site. Something easy for societies and their members to contribute information. I have inherited a few<br />documents relevant to a certain community's history, but not enough to want to join the society. I would like to have a way to submit this information to their database even though I am not a member. A place to ask questions and have discussions about research findings. A place to get opinions about all the information you have compiled about a subject in that location, but are not sure it all goes together. Something societies can charge their membership to see their database. Also a place that a commercial company cannot take over. Maybe a site supported by many genealogical societies, so that there has to be a vote by many before the site is sold to a commercial company. But that is probably too much to ask.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-691016683378293851.post-83766739681650634642011-12-20T21:18:52.645-05:002011-12-20T21:18:52.645-05:00Brava, Marian! This may be your best post yet. You...Brava, Marian! This may be your best post yet. You've given me much to think on.Susan Clarkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02009218875010743399noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-691016683378293851.post-55094625278195743802011-12-20T19:42:00.311-05:002011-12-20T19:42:00.311-05:00I blog, I read blogs, and I belong to 5 societies:...I blog, I read blogs, and I belong to 5 societies: my local society, the largest local society in my state (NOT the local one), my state society, and two societies in areas my ancestors were active in. I am active in the local society. I am also active in an on-line genealogical community.<br />I am not an expert, I do try to be as accurate as I can be.<br />My blog is usually personal, discussing my learning process. I am not sure what citations should appear in a blog like that. For instance, when I posted the memoirs of my grandmother's first cousin, I did provide a citation for the papers. I did not provide any information as to whom this person was, where she fits on my family tree and so on (other than the relationship mentioned above). Would anyone wish to know that?<br />Actually, I started my blog as a way to discipline my studies. I hope my experiences may be of help to others, but my purpose was to help myself, by forcing myself to clarify my thinking by my writing.<br />I think I'm really trying to say that genealogy blogs, like genealogists, come in all the ranges of experience, and cover all the ranges of following that exist.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15551274264418341175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-691016683378293851.post-3316773982797454392011-12-20T18:11:00.401-05:002011-12-20T18:11:00.401-05:00Marian,
You hit the nail on the head! There is a ...Marian,<br /><br />You hit the nail on the head! There is a big difference, in my opinion, between those who are active in the "at-large" genealogy community and also write a blog, and those genealogists for whom the online community is the be-all and end-all. Right now, I would even argue that the former group far outnumbers the latter. But I also think that the scales are tipping in the other direction. This is a shift that is in progress. Those of us in the former group must spend as much time stressing the value and importance of offline community as we do the online community.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-691016683378293851.post-80741186708012611762011-12-20T18:04:24.390-05:002011-12-20T18:04:24.390-05:00Martin,
I originally wrote this post before the N...Martin,<br /><br />I originally wrote this post before the NEHGS poll results had been released. When I sat down to add the second half, I admit that I neglected to discuss the results through oversight. The poll states that 40% of the respondents read at least one blog. I imagine that if the same poll had been conducted even as recently as 2-3 years ago, it would have shown less than 20% read a single blog. And just 5 years ago, it would have probably been in the single digits. To me this is a trend that will continue.<br /><br />I obviously cannot speak for ASG, but I imagine that the reason that the Society does not consider Internet-published research is the lack of editorial and peer review. This is a very important aspect of the "old paradigm"--the process of having one's research reviewed and evaluated by other skilled genealogists.<br /><br />We are in total agreement, however, regarding the use of source citations in blogs. If you read my blog or my two online Examiner columns, you will note that I cite all of my sources in each post, and even include a template for citing most of the posts themselves at the end.<br /><br />Geneabloggers are certainly not an insular community. Many people read blogs who do not also write their own. Many readers, if I could venture to guess, are beginning genealogists who stumble across blogs in their Google searches. These beginners may not belong to the NEHGS mailing list, and so did not respond to the poll. They may not read any blog regularly. Yet to these readers, bloggers may be viewed as somewhat authoritative, the "new experts."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-691016683378293851.post-61594329395520942632011-12-20T17:51:50.591-05:002011-12-20T17:51:50.591-05:00In response to: "but it was interesting that ...In response to: "but it was interesting that members who subscribe to an online newsletter were not reading blogs at all. What does that say?"<br /><br />It may not even say what it sounds like it says. I send out an online newsletter each week that links to posts in my blog. Many people choose to read the blog that way rather than subscribe via RSS. Does that mean they aren't reading the blog? No. Do they always know they are reading a blog? Again, no. Some readers never even get to the point of understanding that my site isn't the newsletter :) Some of this is all in the terminology, and the reader's understanding of said terminology. There really are a lot of people out there who read blogs who don't realize they are doing so.Kimberly Powellhttp://genealogy.about.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-691016683378293851.post-21152756146966025862011-12-20T17:45:58.486-05:002011-12-20T17:45:58.486-05:00Martin,
You say that "I've been down thi...Martin,<br /> You say that "I've been down this road before and had a blog before Michael, you, and Thom, and asked for bloggers to cite their sources in their postings. Precious few do today. Even the eponymous FootnoteMaven won't do it. "<br /><br />Most blogs state that if you ask for a source, we will supply it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-691016683378293851.post-14650635292917878752011-12-20T16:53:34.117-05:002011-12-20T16:53:34.117-05:00Specifically see my last post:; http://mhollick.ty...Specifically see my last post:; http://mhollick.typepad.com/slovakyankee/2010/12/internet-genealogy-is-still-not-scholarly.htmlMartinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17205797878738290997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-691016683378293851.post-68012806973089582222011-12-20T16:31:26.259-05:002011-12-20T16:31:26.259-05:00Neither you nor Michael address the poll in a rece...Neither you nor Michael address the poll in a recent NEHGS newsletter that most of its members do not follow blogs at all. Randy Seaver at Geneamusings wrote a post on it. It is an unscientific poll, but it was interesting that members who subscribe to an online newsletter were not reading blogs at all. What does that say? <br /><br />I might hypothesize that bloggers are insular. They read each other, but the average genealogist does not. In that case, how can they lead the field as a whole? <br /><br />Michael also did not address the fact that the ASG is still not counting Internet published genealogy towards its membership requirements. <br /><br />I've been down this road before and had a blog before Michael, you, and Thom, and asked for bloggers to cite their sources in their postings. Precious few do today. Even the eponymous FootnoteMaven won't do it. <br /><br />The paradigm shift is merely in the minds of bloggers who would like to think they are more important genealogically speaking than they may well be.Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17205797878738290997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-691016683378293851.post-73313287609741494852011-12-20T14:59:33.315-05:002011-12-20T14:59:33.315-05:00Ah, Michael, did you not see this paragaph?
"...Ah, Michael, did you not see this paragaph?<br /><br />"However, I do agree that genealogists can support societies by becoming active members of them. Their energy, passion and leadership involvement can help transform smaller societies so that they can remain viable for the future. Simply sending money to a society is not enough. Active participation and transformation is the answer."<br /><br />Sometimes my volunteer work has totalled up to nearly full time hours. I think I've earned my cred volunteering in New England. That's more than enough considering the large family I am simulataneously taking care of at home.<br /><br />I think when speaking we need to differentiate between those who are actively engaged in the genealogical community (yes, I mean offline!) and those who are considering joining just one local society.Marianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04738104230962644360noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-691016683378293851.post-63176614349631525872011-12-20T14:10:29.153-05:002011-12-20T14:10:29.153-05:00as Bob Dylan put it "The times, they are a...as Bob Dylan put it "The times, they are a'changin'" How exciting to see them changing so rapidly in our lifetimes, and see ourselves and others scrambling to catch up and see ahead as well. A time for leadership and vision, regardless of the method(s) chosen. When I teach a genealogy beginners class, the first thing I do is remind them to not re-invent the wheel - i.e., go join the local genealogical society or historical society, or join one in the arena of one's ancestors' lives. Bloggers are another source... I give them several names of thoughtful insightful practical bloggers - and strongly suggest they start in on the lifetime learning process in genealogy. Your post is excellent in pinpointing the need for an inclusive new paradigm that meets the future challenge. Kudos!Celia Lewishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04096301290962083820noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-691016683378293851.post-63012224223574755092011-12-20T13:15:56.200-05:002011-12-20T13:15:56.200-05:00Another great post, Marian. Now my turn to nitpick...Another great post, Marian. Now my turn to nitpick. ;)<br /><br />"Societies have a lot to offer but they need to change with the times. They can not continue to offer services in an outdated manner when change is happening all around them. I am not going to give my money to a society who provides me with nothing."<br /><br />This is a perfect example of the problem with the paradigm shift. A genealogical society should not be "they"--it should be "us," genealogists. The society cannot provide more than its members can. If the only *active* members a society are older women who may not be able to physically do what they did 20 years ago, and simply don't have the knowledge to make a website or a blog or an online database, then should it die? No, *we* have the responsibility to be sure that the society survives and continues to produce and provide the resources it did 20 years ago, under the old paradigm.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-691016683378293851.post-25700605139514139382011-12-20T10:59:15.603-05:002011-12-20T10:59:15.603-05:00Brilliant discussion - the key is "to lead by...Brilliant discussion - the key is "to lead by example." I think most new genealogists and not so new genealogists want to get it right. Witness the numbers who attend webinars, seminars, and conferences. Also there are numerous online discussions on forums regarding research issues and source citations. <br /><br />Genealogy appears easy (kind of like the tip of the iceberg) when you start with yourself and add parents and grandparents. For most of us it becomes progressively more difficult when we go farther back and oftentimes the research is at a distance (the internet has been a huge help to open up records online for many of us). However, we are not helped when a major player in the game tells us "you don't have to know what you are looking for, you just have to start looking." We are also not helped when people don't take the time to check their work, do simple math or think critically - with the introduction of potential problems in most software programs and/or AI in the form of a program like GenSmarts - there really is no excuse for not checking work before posting/publishing. <br /><br />We need to make the best use of our time and dollars as it relates to books, subscriptions, software, travel, etc. Organizations that can adapt and provide value for the genealogist will survive. Organizations that refuse to adapt will not make it. I have seen both types. We need to be part of the change as appropriate and have high standards - but make sure those standards are for a reason not just because that is the way it has always been done. <br /><br />It is indeed one of the best times to be a genealogist because the technology and many resources are becoming more widely available (whether at home or at a library or archive). <br /><br />However, bottom line - it is still the people who make the difference. The issue is how to be inclusive and welcoming - whether online, at a society meeting, at a genealogy conference, on a blog, or on the various social media sites - and this is up to each of us individually. Another issue is how not to spread yourself too thin, how to combine research with social media activities, and how best to increase the knowledge base of genealogists. <br /><br />Leadership (and a bit more democracy in some organizations) is important and a willingness to be open to new ideas. So how do we get there?Tessa Keoughhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09146870113899850353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-691016683378293851.post-26699576825005481292011-12-20T10:52:09.240-05:002011-12-20T10:52:09.240-05:00As a blogging genealogist though certainly not a p...As a blogging genealogist though certainly not a professional one, I think you are spot on with your response. I look back at the work my great uncle did as a professional genealogist that took him a lifetime to complete. I surpassed his work within a couple years due to the paradigm shift. I can't wait to see how far this paradigm shift will take genealogists (amateurs and professionals alike) before it is replaced by the next one.Edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13214319366049620074noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-691016683378293851.post-36027561721079397312011-12-20T10:34:11.651-05:002011-12-20T10:34:11.651-05:00Bravo! I would comment further but I really feel y...Bravo! I would comment further but I really feel you have written a very professional and eloquent reply that I couldn't agree with more. Well done Marian!Lynn Palermohttp://www.thearmchairgenealogist.comnoreply@blogger.com